Is Nadal still recovering from injury or is there a more serious problem with his technique??
:confused::confused:
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Is Nadal still recovering from injury or is there a more serious problem with his technique??
:confused::confused:
I think the problem is more serious than just lack of practice. Look how he did in the ATP finals. HE DIDNT EVEN WIN A SET!!. What's even worse is that, before the tournament started, I didn't expect him to get to the semis. When you don't expect Nadal to get to the semis of an eight-man tournament, something's seriously wrong...
This may be true. He really didn't perform like himself to any extent. i don't really mean that Nadal needs practice.. just that if he's not there putting in the work week in and week out, his game suffers horribly. But who knows.. maybe he just decided to take a break the rest of the year.
Multiple injuries PLUS mental burnout.
Nobody hits more tennis balls than Nadal. And he hits them 100% full out all the time.
Couple that with the fact all his near competition tries extra hard against him, and his road is tougher than most. He's the benchmark for the top 10.
You say mental burnout but when I watched him at the ATP finals he lacked the extra punch that his shots usually have. He was just being out-hit by every1 he came up against, even davydenko who hasnt got big groundstrokes at all. Nadal was just serving up juicy shoulder height balls that his opponents were hammering
Davydenko's groundstrokes are the best part of his game.
Davydenko's groundstrokes are ridiculously powerful. That and he hits on the rise a lot to get the ball back faster.
That he takes the ball early gives the illusion of his groundstrokes being powerful. Its shrewd thinking on his part because he lacks the power of more heavily built players. The efficiency of his shots come from the angles he creates rather than the power he generates.
If you think about it, when people visualize the players with the biggest groundies, they think Gonzalez, Tsonga, Del Potro etc.. Davydenko wouldn't really come close
Del Potro was averaging 77mph groundstrokes in his loss to Murray in Shanghai, I can't find statistics on Davydenko but of course he can't hit as fast as Del Potro and Soderling. Still he hits hard off both wings, and there's more to powerful groundstrokes than speed alone.
The problem Nadal has with Davydenko is the angle shots because Nadal plays so far back so he has to cover much more ground to get to the kind of well angles shots Davydenko has mastered.
You hit the nail on the head there but I think Nadal's problem with Davydenko's and indeed any other top 10 player's groundstrokes is heightened because Nadal's own strokes aren't as deadly or dangerous as they should have been. If his strokes had been more penetrative then he would have mitigated the risk of having to run around several metres behind the baseline because he would have been able to restrict Davy's groundies
As said, every one else raises their games in expectation of meeting Nadal. He's the benchmark 7.0 top player, so everyone else tries harder against him.
His burnout causes his opponent's to try even harder.
He always hit some short balls, that's what allows him his angles.
The other reason Davydenko was able to beat Nadal has to be his ability to close in on the net at the right time almost all the time. Nikolay was like a goalie in hockey the way he was staying square to the shooter (or in this case hitter) effectively blocking all angles. And speaking of angles, everyone will agree that is Davydenko's game. There's no way to read the shot other than to get a feel for his game. It should be an interesting 2010 people.
Yeah, there is - his serve. Because Nadal's serve is lacking compared to the other top player's, he has to fight that much more for each point. Combined with his reluctancy to go for winners, you've got a deadly, injury-provoking cocktail. And now that the others know how to handle that ferocious topspin, i'm willing to consider Nadal out of the running for any other slams than RG unless he makes major changes. He'll get far, no doubt, but there'll always be a DelPo or Djokovic to thrash him 6-2, 6-2, 6-2.
That's exactly what I thought one of the problems was. The reason his knee gave out was because he cannot gain such an advantage early in the point with his serve and the rallies therefore become longer. When he's fighting fit he can usually cope with that because of his incredibly consistent groundstrokes and speed but eventually so many long points take their toll on the body. I hope that Toni identified this and has been working on Rafa's serve in order to take the pressure of his knees.
One of the reasons why he was so ineffective late in the season was because his serve was easy to break and he could no longer depend on his groundstrokes.
He must do something about his approach to winning points as well. Grinding it out from behind the baseline will work on clay but on hard courts and grass he needs to be able hit winners and his placement needs to be more unpredictable. I remember watching his US open match with Del Potro and I was able to predict where Nadal was going to aim on virtually every shot. Someone who thrives on hitting winners is going to love it.
He must also improve his return of serve. Standing three metres behind the baseline to return a Murray second serve is ludicrous. He needs to take time away from his opponent thus putting more pressure on their serve and, crucially, shortening the points
I honestly believe Nadal is the 8th best player in the world on current form and will not get to a GS final this year if he doesn't rectify the problems with his technique and strategy
I cannot for the life of me understand why you lot adore Nadal so much. Would someone explain his merits - not his personal merits, not his wonderful attitude to the game, not his mental fortitude, his actual merits within the game itself of tennis, to me?
On points of fitness and unique forehand, i agree completely with you, but i don't think it's top notch at all. I mean, come on, it's nowhere near as potent as Del Potro or Gonzo's forehands, is it now?
And on account of changing his game: Yes, he comes to the net slightly more often, and he does hit a few more winners, and he is trying to improve his serve. But he still more or less plays the same old, same old "I can run further and faster than you and hit the ball over the net more consistently than you, nee nur nee nur nee nur!" game.
He's good. But their are guys who are better, and even on form, i doubt he'll ever reclaim the number 1 spot.
You're right, his forehand is not as potent as Gonzo's or Delpo's. Neither are Federer's, Murray's, Djokovic's or Davydenko's but they still win the tournaments. When did Gonzo last win a major tournament?
The reason he is so dangerous is because his tactics are unique. They are no less effective than Gonzo or Delpo, just different. He forces you to match his consistency every shot of every match. If you can't do that, then you're not as good as him. Its as simple as that. In these modern days of power players, people are starting to neglect alternative styles of tennis. "Unless you have more powerful groundstrokes than the other guy you aren't as good" - that's bullshit is it not? Nadal made his mark by introducing a counter-tactic to unadulterated power. In many ways, Nadal is the smartest player around because he thinks "What is the problem with too much power? Inconsistency". He constantly hammers that weakness until you back down and his entire game is honed to carry out his tactics. the problem with his game (and it has only come to light recently) is the fact that if his body isn't in peak condition the whole time or he is out of practice, his game plan is completely corrupted.
His forehand is still more powerful than most players except the real power players. He is not a power player, however, so why should he be compared to one?
It's funny how everyone thinks that his game is going to hell in a handbasket just because he is not dominating. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his serve nor his forehand. 99% of the people on this site wouldn't be able to return his forehand after the intial feed. I assure you that it is hit with tons of pace as well as spin. His serve is the same as it was when he won Wimbledon and the French. His main issue is that he has spent the past 5 years on tour and the newness and excitement has worn off. He has accomplished many of his goals and his motivation is probably half of what it used to be. He has a beautiful girlfriend who he focuses on quite a bit and he has more money than he can spend. He's able to do things that he has never done before and it is not the injury that got him. It's all of the fun and cool things he did while he was injured that probably creeped into his brain. The pressure and dedication it takes to being #1 in the world is tremendous. Constant travel and never being in one spot for more than a few weeks takes its toll. When he was injured, he got to hang out with friends, family, and his girlfriend. He went to places and enjoyed life. It probably affected his motivation tremendously. I truly believe that Federer's lack of an injury is what has allowed him to stay at the top. He has had no down time and really hasn't had a chance to realize all of the financial gains that he has made. Let him take a few months off and see if he comes back with the same motivation after spending two weeks in Fiji and Lake Tahoe without the pressure of winning and losing. Now add friends, family, and the ability to do that anytime he wants, and I can assure all of you that it would affect his ranking and he would probably just retire. Nadal looks tired mentally to me. He isn't smiling as much as he used to and I think he is starting to get the "Jim Courier" syndrome called burnout.
Well, if 99% of the people on this site can't return his forehand then he MUST be on top form!! :eek:
We're talking about people like Del Potro and Djokovic here, not recreational players! Whether you or I can return Nadal's forehand is neither here nor there.
I think you should come up with a more solid argument if you want to convince us that there's nothing wrong with Nadal's game at the moment.
On the issue of Nadal losing interest in tennis because the novelty of being a top player has worn off, I think it's unlikely. Nadal is more dedicated to the game than anyone else. If players lose interest so easily, how come Carlos Moya and Younes El-Aynaoui are still coming back for more? (They just qualified for Brisbane I think). What about Federer - he's broken every record in the book and he's not losing his desire to win grand slams.
I absolutely agree with you - different styles of tennis shouldn't be discounted (i, for one, rejoice every time Federer serve-volleys) - but the fact is that Nadal's forehand is giving him trouble against players such as Del Potro - why? Because they're so tall, instead of his forehand causing them trouble, it ends up right in their wheelhouse - in fact, a major contributor to his problem is that he has abandoned quite a bit of spin for the sake of winner-potency over the years - with the result that his forehand is now neither really here nor there.
Nadal's real problem is the emergence of a couple of players that can actually out-hit him consistently (6-2, 6-2, 6-2 to Del Potro on more than one occasion), Djokovic maturing, and Federer getting over himself. Although i dislike his style of play, i have genuine respect for him - but in spite of that i believe his glory days may very well be coming to a close.
Would it make more sense for me to say that he just can't play tennis anymore? He's just lost it. His serve sucks. Yadda, yadda, yadda. I've spent a lot of time around top tier tennis professionals and I for sure know that it is rarely a stroke that has gone awry that makes them fall apart. Usually it is a mental issue. Many times the issue is overtraining. When you reach the #1 spot there is a lot of weight on your shoulders and tons and tons of pressure. When he was injured and took time off, he was away from the media and the pressure. He relaxed and could actually enjoy himself during his time off. He's not had any time off in years. He's played top tier tennis for years now. It is terribly tiring. The traveling, practicing, eating right, and working out is crazy. Now add the different time zones, dealing with different cultures and their different foods. It goes on and on. On top of that he is trying to have a family life and keep a relationship going as well as find some down time where he can actually think. When he had time off, those worries were pushed to the side and he was able to relax and have a bit of a normal life. He has had to readjust more mentally than physically. His game is fine. His body needs a little time off. It's his head that I would worry about. He has trained for years to be the best and it takes its toll. I know Jim Courier very well. I saw what those 5 years of hardcore training did to him. Heck, call Bollettierri Academy and speak with Nick about it. He would gladly tell you that story. Courier's game didn't leave, his mind was tired. Del Potro, Djokovic, and other guys are still fighting for a chance at the top. Nadal has been there and done that. He needs to get his mind right and then his game will follow. To sit here and say he has lost it is quite funny to me.
I don't think you quite got it there. If you were to ask Del Potro or Djokovich what Nadal's problem was, they wouldn't say his forehand or his serve. They would say his mind. Nadal was a tennis prodigy and the pressure was tremendous. He is mentally tired. So for guys to sit here and say that his forehand is having issues and that he has a bad serve is hilarious. They are no different than they were when he was taking the #1 spot. Federer's game is no different. Nor is Djokovich's or Del Potro's. The one place that I think Nadal is different is that I think he is tired. He trains hard and works hard. He needs a break. However, he may love the break too much. He wasn't having issues before the injury. Extended time off can either be a blessing or a curse. The players have been complaining about the tour schedule anyway. Five years down the road, we or others will be having the same discussion about Del Potro or whoever.
I agree with TK. In the matches Nadal lost, I could see that he wasn't putting everything into each point as he normally does. He seemed a hair slower than usual and didn't push himself to the limit chasing down shots. At that level, I suppose that would be the kiss of death. It seemed to me that he was fatigued physically and mentally. His forehand was still coming through like a kick serve - nothing was missing there!
To me Nadal's form now seems to be very good ! he beat both Federer and Soderling in the exhibition match last week
Yes, and if Liverpool FC beat any of the other top 4 teams within the foreseeable future, they are right back on fantastic form again. Oh. Wait. No.
This early in the season, and on the basis of 1 game, determining that Nadal is on very good form is like determining that the moon is bigger than Jupiter because that's what i looks like with the naked eye.
Time will tell. Again, there is nothing wrong with his forehand or his serve. He needs to get his mind straight. Now, remember, Nadal is a claycourter who has worked on getting better on other surfaces. Watch him on clay to see where his game actually stands. His comeback has been mainly relegated to the hard and indoor surfaces and really aren't going to be great forecasters of how he plays. He practices mainly on clay and I guarantee most of his hitting done after his injury was on clay to minimize the chances of reinjury. He just needs some solid time for practice which he is probably getting now that his injury is pretty much healed. Remember, he was complaining about pain at the U.S. Open, so he has not been truly 100%. All of that factors into his mental game and he probably has not been playing with a ton of confidence. Let's see what the new year brings for him before he gets the "write off".
I'm going to say it's a combination of three factors:
1. injury - probably even ones we don't know about.
2. rhythm - playing most tournaments and feeling confident (or lack thereof)
3. mental fitness - Nadal isn't 100% mentally tuned and his opponents are picking up on this
and taking full advantage.
Saw Rafa's 1st round match in Doha today and he looked very impressive. Admittedly, he was only playing Bolelli but there is certainly a lot more juice on his now deeper groundstrokes now and he's retained the amount of topspin that he used to hit with earlier in his career. He was even hitting down-the-line winners! Can you imagine that??! Nadal hitting down the line winners! Loving his new racket and kit as well.
I absolutely agree. He was impressive, and not only was he playing great tennis, he was taking the initiative against Bolelli, who, at least when i've seen him, goes balls to the wall on everything that even smells like a winner.
If he plays like this for the rest of the year, he can have Roland Garros. Considering that he objects quite strongly to hardcourt, if he can keep this form up, then Vamos Rafa!
he's lost a lot of bulk as well. Should be interesting to see his new tactics against the top 5
What's happening?! No more Toni Nadal apparently. Rafa is currently being coached by someone called Francesco Roig...?
It's his hitting partner. Toni should show up just before the Oz Open.
Oh right. It said "coach" next to his name. Are you watching his match right now?