I would like to know what people think of the abbreviated serve employed by Roddick.
Here's a slow motion analysis:
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I would like to know what people think of the abbreviated serve employed by Roddick.
Here's a slow motion analysis:
I think I wish I can serve like him! :)
I think it looks really awkward but Roddicks serve is basically the best so I guess he's comfortable with it. Back when I first started playing tennis I used something similar, but I was serving with a semi western grip :rolleyes:
that makes two of us :)
i see what you're saying. he puts everything together so quickly that it looks difficult to pull off. however, i do sometimes wonder what the extra loop (non-abbreviated or conventional service motion) is for when the racquet ends up in the same location.
what im saying is why are we told to lift the racquet further away from our body when the actual serve thrust motion doesnt begin until the arm is in the L shape?
Well for me it gives me time to make sure I'm doing everything right, but at the pro level I doubt they need that.
I don't particularly like his service motion. I don't dislike the abbreviation, but I don't like how he drops his racquet arm down low again after he takes it up. He sacrifices alot of control for power. When he gets it in, it is obviously hard to return, but the placement is poor and that is why many players are able to start reading it and have begun to return his serve better. He does not place it well. Mainly because he is taking such a huge cut at it that his control is sacrificed. Example: My uncle was a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers back in the 1960's. He could take a garbage can and set it up 60 yards away and ring it consistently 4 and 5 times in a row. He would do that with one step and then a throw. Now, he could throw the ball 96 or so yards. I never saw him ring the trash can over 90 yards. His motion was compromised when he had to have a big wind up and his control suffered. If Roddick would back off the power just a hair and hit the corners with excellent placement, he would serve that much better. Plus, taking huge cuts like that in matches wears you down. I am certainly not saying he doesn't have a great serve, but I actually think it could be better with a little more control.
To clear some of this up, think about throwing a football (or any kind of ball). Watch the best pitchers. You are throwing the racquet instead of a ball. The down then up motion creates some momentum and gets the body in time, but the big thing is the hand needs to at some point get close to the ear. Not right on it, but somewhere near it. Racquet needs to be up at that point so it can snap down and then snap back up into the ball. The reason I say get the hand somewhere near the ear is because it helps you know where the racquet is and gives you a reference point. Roddick's hand is closer to his right shoulder, but that is because he dips his shoulders so far down. Don't overthink any of this too much. You will get analysis paralysis and then you will have issues with your serve. Think control over power for now. You are only as good as your best second serve. If you can't get the ball in the court, what good is a 120+ mph serve? Look at Agassi. He hit kick and slice serves his whole career. How many more Grand Slams does he have than Roddick? Same with Stefan Edberg and Jimmy Conners. McEnroe didn't murder serves either. He placed them in the corners.
Righto! If you think about hitting winners all the time, you will disappoint yourself when you play better players. Think about hitting good shots and if a winner occurs in the process, so be it and move on. I assure you that placing the ball where you want it will get you plenty of free points, whether it be a winner or not. It's better to be constantly good rather than be occassionally great. Consistancy is the key. Pros just practice and play enough to where they can constantly hit good shots. Federer does not have the biggest shots, but he plays good tennis over and over and minimizes his bad days. That is the difference between a Monfils (who hits a big ball) and Federer (who consistantly hits solid shots, but not huge ones).
I understand that placement is more important then just power, but I'm wondering, TK, when you were a pro, how did you manage to accelerate your serves more/ add more spin.
I've hear about supination (sp.?), but I'm not really sure how that works.
OH, and LT, that cobra sere is certainly helping, ty :)
Awesome! :D Yeah, isn't it great.. your accuracy and overall serve will suffer for a little, but only to become twice as good in the long run. I think it was BJK who said that, in tennis, she was always willing to take a step back so that later on she could take two steps forward. And this is a good example. :)
Have a loose wrist and make sure you have a continental grip. I would swing just as hard at the ball as if I were going to hit it 120 mph. I just tried to brush up very hard on the ball and I had a very big turn. You have to really turn on the kick serves or you will pull out of the shot and your arm will follow bringing the racquet across the ball which will not let you add that heavy upward spin. Don't worry about all of the terms and such. Just brush the back of the ball hard and hit up. Think of the words up and around. The ball needs to arc up and over the net. The toss needs to be around the 11:30 position. It all begins with the toss.
I mean really turn, not just your shoulders. Really rotate the trunk as well because if your hips don't turn and your shoulders do, they will only unwind too quickly and pull you out of the upward motion you need. If the toss is correct, it will normally keep you turned throughout the shot. Overhead and around 11:30. You can adjust the number position according to your preferences, but 11:30 is optimal. I tend to turn my feet as well to keep everything inline as well. Now, I stand in the ready position when serving totally normally, but as I step up and turn my body, my feet pivot as well. (I platform serve. Bringing the feet together.) I stayed turned through the shot while still uncoiling hard and up into the ball. That is why the kick serve tends to hurt people's backs a little. You need to do lower back exercises to strengthen that area to avoid any problems......Get the feel of it. I say it is a feel shot and that will make more sense to you when you start hitting it just right. Your hand snapping up and around the back of the ball is the key thing you need to feel.......
Hey, I have another question. I'm not extremely tall, but I want to hit hard 1st serves. (just 5'6) I know justine henin uses the party stance and puts her entire body into it, and that works for her. However, other players... williams sisters... they use pinpoint stance+ party stance and hit pretty good serves too. (the hardest lol) what would you guys recommend?
Cobra serve. LT showed a video on how to accelerate your serve on the page.
OK, Thank You.
Found the vid...thanks again.
I think I actually already use a technique similar to this, and I think of it as a bullwhip action. The looser I am the better it works, and as soon as I tighten up, it stops working. Cobra is an excellent name for it though. I first learned how to do this similarly from one of Oscar's lessons to improve my 2nd serve with more spin (which it did). Are there differences between the two that I should be aware of? One way for more power and the other for more control (spin)?
I also remember back in the 70's, the Armitradge (sp) brother's looked like they would whip their racquets when they served. It was a beautiful sight watching them serve under the lights at night as their highly polished metal racquets would flash smoothly over their heads.
^I am trying to stick with it. It's sort of difficult, but hey since i have aspirations to be a pro, i ought to get used to making sacrifices.. lol.
To my earlier question.
I am using the cobra serve, but I wonder if you have recommendations for what stance I ought to use.
Party-current
Pinpoint-don't think i will
Pinpoint hybrid-am considering.
Thanks.
Sorry, but I don't. I just call it that to remind myself of the action that it feels like to me. I just got Oscar's updated DVD set, and will keep in mind to find where I originally saw (or maybe read about in his book) the techniques he was teaching. I gave my old set to a newcomer to tennis, and have just started watching the new ones. I will also study the Cobra serve to find out if it can improve on my technique. but I am initially thinking it is the same motion with a different name.
Good :D Don't expect substantial gains and you'll be fine. Slow down your motion while using the cobra so that your muscles can build memory. If you try to push it without laying the fundamentals, you could injure your arm, shoulder, or back. After a month of practice, matches, and analysis, everything will come together. As far as your stance.. are you sure you don't step into your serve? The party stance otherwise known as the platform stance allows one to impart more spin naturally. I would definitely keep the party stance especially since you're 'only' 5'6". Lastly, I think the platform (party) stance compliments a serving grip unlike the pinpoint. And I certainly wouldn't change now that you're learning the cobra serve unless you really want to entirely change your service game.
That would only make sense. If they are different, I bet the end result is still the same - to simply accelerate the racquet head more effectively. :)