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Wegner vs Macci
Just discovered this forum, very interesting. I have studied the Wegner method , along with those of Rick Macci and others and have to say Oscar explains things way more clearly and simply than the others. I am teaching my daughter tennis from day one using nothing but the Wegner method. We live about 3 miles from Macci's academy and about 7 miles from the Evert academy where the USTA will house its junior training program, we will have plenty of chances to see these methods compete with each other.
Macci says in his more recent DVDs that the game has changed but he still teaches mostly conventional thinking. His prize students on his DVDs still run around the court chasing balls with their racquets way back. He gets a crack at 100s and 100s of top athletes and turns them into stiff looking robots using his conventional teachings. Perhaps that is why he can only tout Capriati, Roddick, and the Williams sisters as his successes....but a quick check of history shows that Capriati and Roddick left after a short time to train at Saddlebrook, and Richard Williams pulled his daughters after only a few years at Macci's.
Look at the Williams sisters, who have a history with both Macci and Wegner methods. They attended Macci's academy for several years, then their father pulled them and coached them himself using the Wegner method. They went on to dominate women's tennis.
And Mr. Williams gives credit to Oscar, not Macci....that tells me right there which system I will raise my daughter on!
Last edited by CJTennis; 12-03-2006 at 08:48 AM.
Oups, don't know anything about Macci.
I'm gonna have a look what's on him on the web.
All the best fighters ever and tennis players are made from a broad experience.
If I think Wegner's method is good, you should only look at it as one contribution for your daughter's experience.
Wegner's method is about technical lessons. If mastering the technical moves could lead to n°1...but a player has to train his physical and psychological skills too. All this stands on top of genetics...
I don't think it's possible to compare methods since too many other parameters are involved in the result of a match, including the player capacity to understand and give it back.
Despite all said, Wegner's method is certainly a good way for your daughter to understand and improve her game. And as you demonstrate, great champs went through a great variety of experiences.
**HOLLY YALL CAN WRITE ALOT
I agree that #1 players have come from various experiences. But after playing tennis for 30 years, being taught the traditional way, and then studying the Wegner method, it is like an awakening.
Some people on this forum seem to have a issue with Oscar's self promotion and his most vocal critic Bill says that Oscar is simply borrowing for other modern method instructors. Fine, but in my 30 years of being a tennis junkie I have never come across any instructional material that put together so many improvements in the way tennis is taught, so simply and so completely. So if Oscar "borrowed" some of his material from others than those others have done a lousy job of getting their words out.
Bill also says that Oscar shows a completely flat stroke as the wrong way to hit, and no USPTA pros teach that way anymore. But just last week I observed a clinic where all 5 USPTA pros there were teaching racquet back way early, flat stroke, follow through toward the target as if hitting through 5 balls. All these things are completely wrong for the modern game. And I have recently purchased recently made instructional DVDs from several sources where credible instructors still teach the old way.
what's your religion ? ;-P
Ok, I've seen a couple of information from Macci.
All he says seems to be pretty much the same as what Oscar teaches.
The difference is not so much in what is done technically but on the "how" achieve the body motion.
I still believe Oscar's method is an excellent way to learn tennis, mainly if aiming to compete. It keeps things very simple so we don't focus on our technical game in a match but are able to lead our strategy to win.
But your strokes may look different from Oscar's in very subtil ways. In my opinion, that's where the full accurate analysis of Macci is effective. But still, the message has to be understood by the player and Oscar's tricks keeps the explanations at a level for everyone, where other teachers are using elaborated tennis vocabulary.
One interesting point is underlined by tennisplayer.net. J. Yandell mentions he asked the pros what they do and relates they can't describe their motion. Moreover they don't train it. Teachers made exercises to focus on whatever had to be correct and the players give their best to achieve the duty.
The good thing is, if the coach knows all the details, he must transfert his knowledge to the player keeping it simple & understable. Therefore the player can still aim to win only thinking on "what to do" instead on "how to do".
Yet another long speech to keep jenny impressed ;oP
Don't know who 'Holly' is...but, holy, cow, Jennie is concise and wholely to the point. How about a little green holly wreath for her effort!
Originally Posted by jennie dush
I have studied both Wegner's and Macci's videos and they are very different.
Macci still teaches running to the ball with your racquet back, Wegner has the racquet out in front until the last second.
Macci says over and over that "tennis is all about footwork". Wegner says the feet should move naturally as in other sports.
Wegner and Macci are polar opposites.
Let me simply say that Oscar's way is better and more simple. ONe thing i like about Oscar Wegner is that he teaches you dont have to have a big backswing. Take Federer's forehand for example, he has a good followthrough (finish) but no long or big backswing. I will tell you something that is worth thinking about. When players become good and hit the ball at high speeds, do you think they will have time to make big backswings. My advice to anyone out their is if you want to make a big backswing do it when you have plenty of time-then go ahead, but it will limit your ability when trying to return fast hard flat balls because you have less time. Stick with Oscars method and focus on the finish.
CJTennis and danquest, please keep up the dialog!
I am a baseball fan by heart (played some through high school and still coach my middle child in Little League.) I have been a tennis enthusiast since 1968. I enjoy watching and playing tennis with my three (3) children, son17, son 11 and daughter 8.
I joined to get advice on tennis tournaments for my children to participate in, but I was intrigued by the dialog between CJTennis and danquest. I tend to side with CJTennis about the Wegner method, but I cannot argue with danuest about the importance of fundamentals (no matter what the sport.) What I like about Wegner is the way he "invites" people into the sport of tennis. He has a common sense, non-threatening approach. I agree with danquest,, though, that players cannot rely on pure athleticism, but must be willing to learn the fundamentals. I think sports like baseball, tennis and bowling have lost some appeal to young athletes, because those sports are not as much "fun" to learn as sports like soccer, where participants in their first practice are running around an open field, chasing after a ball (and each other). I like the Wegner method, because he makes learning tennis fun (like bumpers instead of gutters does for bowling and T-ball instead of pitchers does for baseball.) The Wegner method teaches us (old and young alike) to get to the tennis ball and hit it, rather than concerning ourselves with "form". Don't get me wrong, I understand how important mechanics are in any sport, but if the participant does not enjoy the sport to begin with, than he or she will not continue to participate. Bowling has drawn in more participants with bumpers and rails (keeping the ball on the lane is fun), baseball has drawn in more participate with T-ball and coaches pitch (keeping the ball in play is fun.) Wegner's method has and will continue to draw in more tennis players, because it makes hitting the ball fun. But as with any sport, once the player enjoys it, he or she wants to become better. Then, a coach can improve the player's skills with mechanics. Forget "KISS" and remember "KIF" (Keep It Fun!) No sense adding the fourth "S", because none of us on this Thread are "Stupid".
I am happy to become a part of your community!
being confrontationnal ?
Michaley, I'm sorry, maybe being french, my nature is a bit confrontationnal, but nothing agressive with it or towards CJTennis, just a way to debate and get through details and performance (as promoted by a US reference, J. Welch, former GE's CEO).
Although I appreciate OW's method and bought his DVDs, I wanna keep my freedom and tried to demonstrate I have no "human God" ;-P
When I watch a tennis match, I don't see a method against another one, I just see 2 players trying to win. They are humans, none a product from a factory (or academy).
When playing myself or teaching others, I wanna be sure we are ourselves and not pretending being a product of someone else. Having a God can be good if you keep your faith. Unfortunately, when things gets worse, you loose your faith and find yourself lonely and miserable.
All this to say, when I play I only believe in me to win. I teach this and players asking my advice are just asking an advice knowing they will always be reponsible for what they do.
To illustrate, I saw a lot of kids crying when things where not turning the way expected. None of mine ever did, they enjoy the game, give their best and if they loose, learnt from it and aknowledge the quality of their opponent.
I believe this makes them more mature rather than adoring a guy and his method...Although learning from everyone is my motto and I appreciate some people making DVDs to share their knowledge with others.
The difficulty in trying to "blend" conventional and modern tennis methods is that they are contradictory. Once you "hit like the pros" you simply cannot hit any other way. It's all in the feel, and compared to Oscar's way which is natural, relaxed and easy, conventional techniques now seem akward and inefficient. The real test is in competition. There is still plenty for a player to focus on in terms of strategy even when you have gotten comfortable with Oscar's techniques. I can attest to an increase in confidence and better performance, achieved through the modern tennis method (and not found with conventional tennis techniques) in just 1 USTA season using his DVDs. Actually taking lessons form a certified MTM coach will catapult your game.
Wegner vs. Macci
I just viewed the Weekly Tennis Tip by Rick Macci on the USPTA website and it perfectly illustrates how different he and Oscar Wegner are in their approaches to "modern tennis". I'd be happy to explain if anyone is interested, or perhaps someone else can.
Tell us about Oscars clinic.
There were 25 participants; all but 6 were teaching pros, and most of them were MTM certified. People came from all over So Cal to work with Oscar in person. 2 coaches flew in for the day from Sacramento! Now that's dedication. But, that's the way it is with Oscar's coaches - they are dedicated to his method because they know from personal experience how well it works. We were on court for 6 hours; a morning session, lunch then afternoon session. Each participant got plenty of time to ask questions, clarify data, have Oscar analyze strokes and make suggestions. We did several drills including the serve, the volley, groundstrokes, and there was an open forum discussion on teaching techniques. Although the weather was very warm (we were having a heat wave that week) everybody stayed hydrated and there were plenty of healthy snacks to keep us all going. Everybody got to experience Oscar's method first-hand, clear up misconceptions and understand better how easy it is to play like the pros and teach others to do so and enjoy the game so much more. Afterwards several of us went out to dinner and shared personal stories with Oscar and listened intently to his numerous anecdotes about being on the tour and working with top coaches and players over the years. To learn more about Oscar's method go to www.tennisteacher.com
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